Hey, y’all! Welcome again to episode 16 of the Southern Fried eCommerce Podcast from EYStudios. That is our final episode of the yr and to have a good time we’re having a Festivus-themed episode. Festivus is a fictional vacation created by Seinfeld now celebrated in actual life on December twenty third annually. One of many Festivus traditions is “The Airing of Grievances” the place as a substitute of sharing what you’re grateful for, you relieve the built-up stress of the vacations and inform your family members what you actually assume. On this episode co-hosts Jay Brimberry and Emily Faulkner will likely be airing their eCommerce grievances alongside particular visitor CEO Eric Yonge.
Eric started the podcast by mentioning some private grievances in opposition to Emily, significantly the outrageous declare that The Darkish Knight is a trash film. Jay warned that this podcast was for eCommerce grievances, not private ones in any other case this might get harmful. Eric agreed however not earlier than throwing a much-deserved barb Emily’s means: she doesn’t like The Darkish Knight however she does like The Pressure Awakens. Make of her tastes what you’ll. Shifting past private film grievances, Jay turned their consideration to the primary grievance of the episode:
The Good Platform Does Not Exist.
Jay’s concern considerations platforms saying that they’re the “excellent platform” and pushing a “one-size matches all” mentality of their advertising when that’s not the fact.
JAY: My hope for 2022 is that platforms actually start to stake a declare into specialties and the issues that they’re nice. Proper now everyone’s making an attempt to be huge into B2B, and rightfully so. I consider that Shopify has some stuff popping out for B2B, clearly, Magento has been doing B2B, BigCommerce is making an enormous play in B2B, you have got a few of these bigger platforms which are huge gamers, and so forth. The very fact of the matter is, B2B is so intricate, so business-rules pushed, that not each platform could be a nice B2B possibility. There’s nonetheless loads of B2C to seize however we see this chase for cash. ‘Okay that is an untapped trade, we obtained to be there.’ And I get that’s what expertise does however in that pursuit platforms and companies — this isn’t only a platform drawback — could make guarantees that they’re ill-equipped to observe by way of with…This yr, my goodness, have you ever seen a platform so far that hasn’t repped headless or hasn’t repped PWA? I don’t know. It’s simply each platform is making an attempt to be all the things to each little buyer. What’s your specialty? Let’s discover out what that specialty is, let’s ensure there’s a adequate area of interest there, and let’s go after that specialty. As a substitute of ‘properly our specialty is simply the eCommerce service provider.’ That’s an enormous specialty proper there. Not each platform might be all the things to everyone…I feel that platforms must be a little bit bit extra accountable in laying out what they do properly.
ERIC: That’s a great level. I feel lots of this comes all the way down to possibly an unclear understanding or definition of the varieties of retailers concerned. I imply have a look at how nebulous the time period mid-market is, proper? You go to 1 platform and so they’ll say we outline the mid-market as retailers doing $5 to $15 mil and then you definitely go to a different platform and so they say mid-market begins at $50 to $100 mil. And a few of these phrases imply nothing to retailers however the level is, we’re speaking about advertising, you first must know what the viewers is earlier than you market to them. And as we all know the distinction between a $5 million greenback service provider versus a $50 million greenback service provider could be very, very completely different. So we’ve to consider the methods to market to them actually on a person foundation versus one thing that’s handled out of entire fabric.
Jay acknowledged that companies wish to become profitable and don’t wish to shoehorn themselves into a distinct segment after which turn out to be unable to simply accept new varieties of purchasers. Nonetheless, he thinks that some advertising verbiage creates gray areas of reality and may probably misguide retailers. Emily agreed.
EMILY: Like what you had been saying the place everybody retains saying that they’re the proper platform. If everyone is saying they’re particular then no one’s particular. You’re not showcasing why you’re truly the proper decide for them. Pay attention, I’m with you, everyone is making an attempt to get these clients, everyone is making an attempt to get them on their platforms however when you’re not getting the suitable clients to your platform you’re doing them a disservice. As a result of if they arrive to that conclusion and so they determine to go away, then it wasn’t value it within the first place. So it’s best to actually take into consideration what makes you particular. What makes these clients gravitate in the direction of you and stick with you? And that helps us too! And if we’re all working collectively, all of us get the consumer, so we’re all comfortable.
ERIC: That’s a very good level Emily and I feel it’s the generalist vs. the specialist route…the purpose is the retailers have to know: ‘why do I want to rent you?’ ‘why you?’ And so what I’ve discovered is that by being above board and saying ‘that is what we’re actually good at, this is the reason folks rent us. They rent us for this, this, and this.’ ? ‘In the event you’re anticipating this, that’s not what you’re going to get right here.’ I’ve by no means encountered a service provider the place they’re turned off by that. If something, let’s say it’s unfavourable, they admire the candor of figuring out what they won’t get with you and so I feel that’s actually vital to do. Such as you stated Jay, no one’s mendacity however I feel that creating parameters round ‘that is what you may anticipate with our platform’ will actually assist. As a result of when that dialogue isn’t in play, what occurs is it falls to the associate, it falls to us [EYStudios] to must outline that to the service provider. And we by no means wish to be able the place we’ve to say that the platform might have an issue.
Jay agreed and admitted that this grievance most likely does come from a spot of being a little bit too defensive of his purchasers. He desires to verify they’re not being taken benefit of by advertising and generally it may well appear too simple to do all the things on each platform. For instance, he famous, when you had been to guess what Wix can do based mostly solely on promoting you’ll assume it was one of the vital highly effective platforms when in actuality it’s a newbie platform. He additionally famous that there are some platforms he’s by no means heard of which are popping up each day and making large claims about their capabilities. He warns eCommerce retailers to be cautious about selecting the best platform or ask for recommendation from an company like EYStudios. He admitted he might most likely proceed this grievance for some time however ended it there and turned it over to Eric for his grievance.
Salutations of Cheers, Greatest, and Keep Protected
Eric’s grievance is with folks being too good in emails and ending them with the phrases “cheers”, “greatest”, and “keep secure” previous to their signature. To be clear, he significantly hates this when the e-mail is of a unfavourable nature however the sender nonetheless forces a “cheers” on the finish like some deranged pub goer. He admits it’s a little bit of a private pet peeve however Jay and Emily agree it’s worthy of airing grievances about.
Cheers:
ERIC: Cheers! With an exclamation level, generally a comma. I don’t get cheers. You’ll have to clarify that.
JAY: It was a present that got here out within the 80s that starred Ted Danson and in subsequent seasons you had Kelsey Grammar and Woody Harrelson.
EMILY: The place everyone is aware of your title.
JAY: It simply appears very European. Like I simply walked into an Irish pub and everybody rotated to me and stated cheers.
EMILY: It’s European.
ERIC: Particularly after they’re from the South, cheers simply doesn’t work.
Greatest:
ERIC: I suppose I don’t know if that is ‘I’m the very best’, ‘all the very best to you’, what does greatest indicate?
EMILY: You’re the greatest.
JAY: You’re the very best round. Nothing’s ever going to maintain you down.
EMILY: Is that this the musical episode?
Keep Protected:
ERIC: We’re seeing this one pop up with all the things occurring and I simply don’t fairly get it.
EMILY: I similar to to reside quick and free, Eric.
ERIC: Proper? How are you aware I’m secure? How do I keep that means? I don’t know.
Eric believes this most likely stems from his dislike of firms making an attempt to turn out to be too hip. When companies discuss the way in which folks converse he thinks it may well come throughout as snarky and when everyone is doing it it turns into obnoxious. He stated that he would favor to do enterprise with somebody who has a humorousness however isn’t at all times sarcastic and incapable of being honest. Jay and Emily agree particularly about emails the place firms try and be snarky and guilt you into signing up by way of messaging like “I suppose you’re too good to open this e mail.”
Earlier than shifting on to the following grievance Eric introduced up a well-liked web argument in the intervening time which is using “no worries” or “no drawback” in response to “thanks” as a substitute of “you’re welcome.” Emily defined that it is a generational drawback and poked enjoyable at Eric for becoming a member of Jay in “outdated man territory.”
ERIC: I simply thanked you for one thing! I’m not apprehensive about something! The right response is ‘your welcome.’ I’m not apprehensive, I’m simply merely thanking you for one thing. Go away the concern out of it.
EMILY: I say no worries as a result of it’s ‘oh, no drawback,’ it stems from that. What you have got requested me to do for you was not an issue for me, it was not a fear for me, I hope you’re having a great day, no worries to you brother. Simply making an attempt to verify everyone feels chill.
In that vein, we bounce into Emily’s grievance which isn’t fairly as harsh as Eric’s.
Purchasers Not Passionate About Their Personal Enterprise
Emily works with lots of purchasers and potential purchasers regarding advertising and has discovered that some folks merely aren’t obsessed with making their enterprise develop.
EMILY: It’s one thing that’s at all times simply form of bit me at the back of the top. Positive, we are able to take this challenge like ‘simply take it we don’t wish to give it some thought we don’t wish to fear about it.’ Completely, I’m tremendous comfortable to try this for you, however I need you to be simply as obsessed with it as I’m. I need you to get up within the morning and be simply as jazzed about what we’re making an attempt to do. I’m making an attempt to become profitable for your online business as a result of it’s your product. We’re promoting your product! Are you not as excited as I’m? Come on, man.
Jay agrees and has this dialog with purchasers very often the place they wish to hand over a process fully.
JAY: They’ll say ‘properly that is what we’re paying you for’ and that’s a legitimate argument. If I am going out and I rent any individual to do my deck, the very last thing the contractor desires me to be doing is stand over their shoulder saying ‘I feel you missed a nail there’ or ‘are you certain that the way in which you’re making use of this stain, are you certain it’s going to take this manner?’ and so I feel a few of it has that the shop proprietor doesn’t wish to be overbearing and I feel a few of it’s that they’re extraordinarily busy. However I agree with you. I’ve seen it extra right here not too long ago — I don’t know if it has to do with 2020, COVID, all that stuff — there may be some apathy in terms of enterprise and the fervour enterprise house owners have of their enterprise. I don’t see it on a regular basis and possibly it’s simply from my facet trying in. They’re most likely busy with 100 different issues that I’m not interested by…Nonetheless, there are those who assume that by placing [their site] on autopilot and hiring a great company, they will get by. And so they can, however, conferences two instances a month or so, that’s not an excessive amount of to ask to ensure that we’re on the identical web page with you in terms of your online business.
EMILY: Completely. I really like the deck analogy as a result of I feel that’s the proper technique to clarify this. I’ll construct you the deck. You possibly can go sit inside, drink a cup of espresso, get pleasure from your day but when I want to come back inside to ask ‘what sort of wooden do you wish to use for this deck?’ I wish to know what your enter is since you’re going to see it day by day, it’s going to be at your home, and I wish to ensure we’re doing proper by you. ‘Do you want this paint coloration?’ I need your enter on it. I need you to be simply as excited concerning the finish results of the deck as you’re concerning the product itself.
JAY: My favourite is — utilizing this analogy — ‘hey, what kind of wooden do you wish to use on this?’ ‘Oh, I don’t care.’ ‘Alright, I’m going to make use of oak.’ Quick ahead to a month later, ‘hey contractor why is that this oak, I wished spruce.’
ERIC: That’s a great level. I’m interested by the contractors that I’ve employed and we did a great bit of labor on her home this yr and that form of factor. And a few contractors are positively higher than others as a result of they perceive that you simply don’t know the way it all works… I feel the toughest factor for me is after I rent contractors even after I’m searching for completely different bids is after they all say various things. It’s not like the identical bit of recommendation, all of them come at it from a special angle and I don’t know — I don’t know what’s true…I feel even in eCommerce there may be simply a lot, whether or not it’s one thing technical or aesthetic that the enterprise proprietor simply doesn’t perceive. And hopefully, we’re the form of firm that helps clarify that in a means that’s highly effective, that’s palatable, that’s comprehensible to the enterprise proprietor why they should make that call. That reveals that we care about that.
, talking from private expertise, there’s a lot on [business owners’] minds: they’re interested by their folks, interested by paying this invoice or simply maintaining the ship going. Typically you’re simply form of worn out by the method and I feel when there’s some ignorance concerned too that may create some nervousness for the service provider. I feel on the flip facet of that although, and we are able to consider many consumers right here at EYStudios that we work with which are nice examples of this, when the service provider throws themselves into the method and so they turn out to be part of the model and so they assist talk what’s particular about their model, about their tradition, and so forth. There’s only a form of fascinating alchemy that happens when that occurs as a result of we’re bringing it on our finish and so they’re bringing it on their finish. And there needs to be some collaboration. I feel when the service provider or the enterprise proprietor is simply form of hands-off and says ‘properly that is what I’m paying you for,’ the dearth of collaboration can actually harm the challenge. I feel that any good company, any good contractor, or no matter kind of enterprise we’re taking a look at, must carry a degree of management. However it’s important to present up. You’ve got to care concerning the course of as a result of I feel that collaboration actually helps the top consequence.
Jay responded with “ardour begets ardour.” He then identified that EYStudios will at all times be extra passionate concerning the challenge you rent us for but when the consumer doesn’t care in any respect, the bar is ready fairly low.
Eric agreed with that time and recalled how a contractor he employed for a yard challenge was extra passionate concerning the challenge than he was and was continuously developing with new artistic concepts. Eric stated this was infectious and that that was the form of surroundings he hopes to foster with our personal purchasers.
Cease Saying Stuff Is Straightforward
Jay’s second grievance of the episode is that anybody — companies, retailers, purchasers, and so forth. — who says that one thing is straightforward isn’t making an attempt laborious sufficient.
JAY: What companies are attempting to do is put your thoughts relaxed with ‘oh that is simple’, ‘we are able to do that with our eyes closed’, ‘that is nothing’. So that you’re strolling away from the assembly pondering to your self ‘okay nice, that is simple, these folks obtained my again. They know what they’re going to do.’ Pay attention, since I’ve been at EYStudios we’ve executed properly over 700, 800 websites. It will get a little bit bit harder every time. Not as a result of it’s that a lot more durable however as a result of we care that rather more. You don’t wish to do the identical factor over and over and over. I had this dialog as we speak with a consumer that’s within the $3 to $5 million greenback vary and so they wish to be within the $7 to $10 million greenback vary and the precise phrases had been, ‘properly I desire a template as a result of I wish to get this factor in control and I want it to be simple’ and I stated ‘if you wish to be simple you’ll by no means get to $7 to $10 million {dollars}. You might want to select one of many two: would you like the income progress or would you like ease?’
He continued on to say that it’s simple to assume that it’s simple to be successful story with expertise caring for the laborious work however with extra expertise enterprise can get harder. “If it’s simple, why are you paying for it,” he stated.
ERIC: That’s precisely proper. I really like the way you phrased that and I feel that what you’re saying is emblematic of what’s taking place in our nation and I hate to take it right here however I feel what’s taking place simply in our populace is that we’re going to a spot the place we simply gravitate to what’s simple and if one thing isn’t simple then we wish to flip away from it….after I discuss to the designers I inform them we’ve to ascertain the toughest factor we are able to consider. If we simply go to this pondering it’s simple or we are able to knock this out no matter there’s no glory in that. There’s no satisfaction within the job properly executed once you simply did one thing that’s “simple.” I wish to go residence on the finish of the day feeling like I left all the things out on the sphere and the one means to try this is to embrace what’s robust. And work is difficult. What we do and what lots of people do is difficult work. However like my dad would say, “when you love what you do you’ll by no means work one other day in your life.” In the event you find it irresistible, the fervour that you simply’re speaking about doesn’t really feel like a slog. And you recognize that’s how I really feel about EYStudios and what we do: it’s laborious work however as a result of I’m obsessed with it, the fervour supersedes the elements that suck.
[Note: Eric’s dad actually stole that saying from Confucius but EYStudios employees are used to quotes being attributed to Eric’s father.]
Emily agreed and went on a mini diatribe about her love for working at EYStudios. She stated it’s the toughest she has ever labored however the very best job she’s ever had. Maybe she began on the egg nog early or maybe all of us actually do love our jobs that a lot.
The Design Continuum
Eric’s second grievance is that design is both too boring or too difficult.
ERIC: What I imply by a design continuum is that we’ve obtained two sides of the design spectrum. Okay, so on one facet we’re seeing design that’s so boring, I imply there’s nothing to it. I’ll have a look at the emails. I’ll have a look at the way in which some websites are designed and there’s no thought to it. Goes together with what we’ve been speaking about with ardour and it’s simply nothing. And it’s supposedly these “high-end websites.” What I’d say as a designer is that you simply’re incorporating lots of white house and in order for you an open, clear look: that’s a few of the hardest designs that you simply’ll ever do. As a result of it’s important to be cognizant of all the structure necessities to drag that design off. You possibly can’t simply not do something. You possibly can’t simply not take into consideration the summary notions of what you’re making an attempt to design. So I’ve simply seen these websites which are simply so overwhelmingly boring and don’t adhere to any form of design normal — they’re simply form of there.
After which on the alternative finish of the spectrum, you’re seeing these websites that I do not know methods to work together with. They’re fancy and so they’ve all these sorts of micro-interactions and large photographs and so they’re visually stunning however as an eCommerce website it’s like ‘what am I imagined to do with this factor?’ ‘how am I imagined to work together with this website?” It’s like a museum piece, it appears fascinating however when it comes to making a conversion machine, it fails. So each of those extremes, I feel, are very dangerous to eCommerce proper now. I imply you have a look at a few of the websites that make it on high 10 lists and I have a look at them and go ‘are you kidding me?’ So what I wish to ask subsequent is properly how is it changing? What’s the bounce fee? How is that this factor truly doing versus the way it appears? I feel lots of of us rightfully have a look at design companies, model companies, like ourselves, and so they assume ‘properly they’re simply specializing in making it look fairly.’ And that couldn’t be extra reverse of the way in which we expect. It’s not simply the way it appears. Does it carry out? Does it work? So I feel designers and numerous creatives can go too far in a single route or one other and the result’s an expertise that’s missing.
JAY: I agree and that goes again to what we’re saying about simple. Typically you may simply inform that there was completely no thought put into this and I’m 100% certain that the designer stated ‘that is going to be simple.’ And once more, conversions aren’t simple. We’re speaking about eCommerce of us! There’s a thought course of that goes into the design to get a complete stranger, that you’ll by no means meet, that may by no means get to know you, gained’t know you on a first-name foundation, to enter of their bank card data, the gateway to all their funds all the things that they’ve of their checking account, enter that into your portal and click on proceed with order…That may be a miracle!
Enterprise Jargon and Work Face
The final grievance of the episode is from Emily that found this annoyance of hers through the pandemic after we all began working from residence. Her grievance is within the type of a query, “why do I’ve to fake to speak a sure means?”
EMILY: I feel it’s as a result of after we had been sitting at residence and we’ve been on like these video calls and generally had been unintentionally muting ourselves or possibly any individual’s canine walks in. That’s human. That’s actual. That’s natural. So why is it whereas all of these issues are taking place, I’ve to be like ‘oh good sir, thanks a lot for taking me up on this name har har har.’ I simply wish to discuss to you. Simply ‘I want to speak to you about conversion, these are the issues I’m seeing, these are the issues I wish to do about it, do you want that sure or no?’ As a substitute of me having to overthink my phrases or similar to utilizing buzzwords — I hate buzzwords! I’m so uninterested in it. I don’t wish to preserve speaking about ROI, I wish to say ‘I wish to make you cash, can I make you cash?’
ERIC: Man these are some good factors and I’m pondering again to what Jay shared about platform advertising. The thought simply occurred to me with what Emily is sharing: we don’t need all of the enterprise. I imply EYStudios. We don’t need each enterprise alternative that comes our means. I simply need the very best enterprise. I wish to interact with purchasers that get what we do, which are a pleasure to work with, and get the worth in what we do. And I simply want extra firms had been like that as properly…I feel a come one, come all strategy creates poor communication and creates that stilted dialogue you’re speaking about Emily. I feel on the flip facet is that there are sufficient folks on the market which are hungry for actual communication; they only wish to discuss to any individual that’s actual. That doesn’t have the pretense and all the rubbish Emily is speaking about. In the event you can have an actual reference to those who’s what actual enterprise is about. The remainder is only a transaction. If we are able to get all the way down to some severe enterprise then we might be actual about how we’re speaking.
Jay agrees and hopes we’re shifting within the route of extra sincere communication. Nonetheless, he does make some extent of claiming there does have to nonetheless be some enterprise decorum. He admits that’s a effective line to stroll however a vital one in enterprise. “You possibly can perceive it is a enterprise with out being robotic,” he stated.
Earlier than Jay obtained labored up over one other grievance, we despatched him to go take some blood strain medicine and ended the episode right here. Tell us what a few of your eCommerce grievances from the previous yr have been. We want you a Merry Festivus and a Completely satisfied New 12 months.
We hope you preferred this episode of the Southern Fried eCommerce podcast, be sure you subscribe to catch our subsequent episode within the new yr!
